Ebay
Multi-Buy Promotions Fail to Work on Multiple Occasions,
Resulting in Retail Fraud
On 7th April 2020 I was alerted by a very
helpful customer that when he had purchased four items,
the discount for buying four had not been applied.
He wrote...
Helpful Customer: E-Bay has given a
postage discount but hasn't given a quantity
discount. The listing shows GBP 3.28 each for four
off.
He is correct. A UK buyer has seen an
advertised price of £3.28, used all the ebay shopping
cart systems correctly, got the postage 'discount,' and
has still been charged £3.45 each.
Henry: Hello H.C.
I will look into this and
give the telephone seller "support" line some bashing about
this, as it amounts to retail fraud. Right now, all I can do
is either cancel the order and refund, or send it. Or, I
could cancel it and send you a paypal money request for the
correct amount. Please let me know which you'd prefer and
thanks for your note.
Henry Walmsley.
Henry: Hello again,
So, the ebay seller
"support" line can give no explanation for this, other than
suggesting that I only put the multi-buy promotion on after
the sale was made, which we know isn't the case. I've found
another instance of this in today's sales. I suspect that
they will blame it on a 'glitch,' when they call back
tomorrow. I've made my displeasure clear and will publish
the recording of the calls here:
(link to my main ebay complaints page)
Meanwhile, please let me know if you want to cancel the
order. It might work correctly if you re-order or I can send
a request via paypal for the correct amount as suggested.
Thanks,
Henry.
Helpful Customer:
Thank you for your reply. Please send the items and forget
about the few pence. I just wanted to let you know about
what's going on on your listing.
Kind regards,
H.C.
What a helpful and nice customer, considering that he's just
been the subject of (albeit unintentional) retail
fraud! I spotted another instance of this that
happened around the same time. Overseas buyers from UK
sellers can't see the multi-buy discounts. Why this
should be in the 21st century I have no idea, when I've used
multi-buy discounts as a UK buyer from some Chinese / HK
sellers for years. However, that is a question for
another time. For now, why are ebay multi-buy
promotions from a UK seller to a UK buyer who has seen the
advertised discount sometimes mysteriously failing?
Let's get on to the Ebay seller "support" telephone line for
an unambiguous and clear answer, shall we? You can
click on the links below for the recordings. The first
one had Very extended hold times, which have been edited out
for your sanity. The full call time was about 45
minutes.
Ebay
Seller Telephone Support Say That Multi-Buy Discount
Promotions are Working Fine and Accuse Me of Lieing
Despite the Facts In Front Of Their Own Eyes.
I despair at the delay tactics employed by the staff, and
the denial of the obvious. However, I will no longer
accept "Oh, it was just a glitch" as an excuse for making me
guilty of Retail Fraud. Thankyou for repeating the
information that I gave you in the first instance as an
explanation of what has happened. No. Not good
enough.
There was a call back the
following day. Thankyou again, ebay seller support,
for repeating back to me the information that I gave you in
the first instance as an explanation of what has
happened. I was a bit busy at that moment getting out
an urgent parcel, so I didn't quite have the time to
'dig-down,' as they say. Here's the call:
Ebay Telephone Seller Support
Call Back and Repeat Back to Me The Same Lies About the
Failure of Multi-Buy Promotions Which Made Me Guilty of
Retail Fraud.
There has been no response
since. Well, I've not finished on this one.
Rob Hattrell, UK VP Ebay. I hope
you're listening to the 'phone calls, Luv.
"Rob Hattrell leads the eBay UK business
and is accountable for all operations in that market. He
is passionate about consumer sellers, small businesses
and the role technology and eBay play in powering
entrepreneurship and creating opportunity. Rob has run
the UK market since 2017."
I've written to you before Rob, and I
didn't get a response. Fancy! I look forward
to your call about how your company makes me guilty of
retail fraud.
17th April 2020: Ermmm... What's
Happening with Multi-Buy Here As Well?
I'm glad that Rob Hattrell is so, "...passionate about
the role technology and eBay play in powering
entrepreneurship and creating opportunity,"
because here's another eBay Multi-Buy failure
that results in me committing retail fraud, and
you can reproduce this one consistently.
You can click on the screenshot below for a
bigger image of one of my listings.
So, this is a
variation listing. Variation listings
include slightly different variations of the
same thing, like different size T-shirts.
Some unscrupulous sellers will try to fiddle
this system by having a list of different size
T-shirts for £9.95, and then another variation
for a stick-on badge for 99pee in an attempt to
get to the top of a list of items listed by
lowest price first. Naughty! This is
forbidden by the rules. However, it's
explicitly allowed to have the XXXL T-shirt at a
different price than the XS one. Equally
well, in this example we have a series of
different capacitance values from the same range
of capacitors. The bigger ones are more
expensive. Fine. That's all clean
and above-board. When you select the
appropriate capacitance on the drop-down box,
the prices change and you also see the correct
prices on the Buy 1, Buy 2, and Buy 3 multi-buy
buttons. Hang on though, below that it
says, "4 or more for £3.75 each."
"Oh that sounds like
a bargain," says the customer, bungs four into
their basket and hits checkout and pay.
Not realising that in fact, that particular part
of multi-buy does not change price when you
select your desired capacitance value, and
continues to show you the price for four of a
different variation. Useless! No,
worse than useless. Because that's a
retail pricing offer that is subsequently
changed without warning, it's fraud. In
this particular case the price for four looks
unusually low and most customers will notice,
and check the price in shopping cart. But
that need not be true in all cases.
It's
yet another ebay
programming
monkey failure
which no-one
cares about, because
guess what? If the customer is
over-charged, that's more fees for Ebay in the
very short term, while I have to deal with the
annoyed customers and issue costly
refunds. I'll call this one
in on the telephone next week to
see if the reaction is anything
greater than the usual
slopey-shouldered shrug, and 45
minutes of pretending not to
understand the problem. I
find it remarkable though.
Supermarkets have ended up in
court with similar problems
where the price marked on the
shelf was different to that
charged at the checkout.
The analogy is direct, so I hope
that you've got your best suit
and tie ready Rob Hattrell, VP
eBay UK, because if I end up in
the dock, you're going to be
right there next to me.
Henry: "What, Rob; You
didn't know about it?"
But I've posted links to this
page as comments on the ebay
Facebook page, and I'll be on
the telephone to eBay seller
support about it next
week. Don't
worry, I'll mention your name in person for the tape,
and say that it's an urgent legal issue about eBay
trading practices.
Update 26-MAY-2020:
As if it were possible, it's even worse
than that. The much vaunted "Ebay Multi-Buy
discounts" not only frequently fail to apply correctly,
not only show misleading prices, but also sometimes
apply when they should not! Ebay claim that during
the current virus issues, they can't find a way to
employ call centre staff in such a way that they can
work from home, which we know from previous experience
that they can. So instead we are forced to use the
text chat system. The level of deliberately obtuse
misunderstanding in order to try to avoid addressing the
point that I've experienced here is very annoying, but
one must be dogged and carry on explaining the
situation, as if to a child. Here is a transcript
which proves that multi-buy discount has been applied
incorrectly to two completely separate transactions from
the same person:
Multi-buy discount for
applied incorrectly on a single purchase.
2020 - 05 - 16
08:55:22 UTC Raja
Welcome to eBay Live Help. My name
is Raja. I would be happy to help you today. Please stay
connected while I review your query.
08:55:54 UTC Raja
Hello Henry,
08:56:00 UTC vila_restor
Hi
08:56:31 UTC Raja
I can see that you are concern
about a discount applied incorrectly, am I correct?
08:56:41 UTC vila_restor
Yes that's right.
08:57:16 UTC vila_restor
Order no. 21-05041-93702
08:57:58 UTC Raja
May I know it you want to alter the
discount offer or is there anything else I could do for you
with this?
08:58:31 UTC vila_restor
Can you see that order in paid and
dispatched items?
08:58:57 UTC Raja
Ah! the item has been sold already,
no worries, Please share the buyer id and I will assist you
further :)
08:59:18 UTC vila_restor
johnny_#####
09:01:13 UTC Raja
Thank you for sharing this with me,
i can see that the item is showing in sold section.
09:01:45 UTC vila_restor
Right. And how many were sold?
09:02:07 UTC vila_restor
on transaction id 21-05041-93702
09:03:36 UTC Raja
The item "Solder Lug Connection
16mm Log Potentiometer" has been sold for two times to -
"johnny_#####"
09:04:02 UTC vila_restor
On tranasaction id 21-05041-93702
there is one item sold.
09:05:03 UTC Raja
Henry I would like to share that
every transaction Id remain different for transaction on site.
09:05:40 UTC vila_restor
Well, on the single transaction
that you can see are seperate sales there was one item sold
then.
09:05:49 UTC Raja
ALso, May I know what exact
resolution you are seeking for so that I can have a better
understanding in order to resolve this quick and efficiently
up to your satisfaction?
09:07:02 UTC vila_restor
Yes. There are two single
transactions there.. The customer has bought one item on each.
A discount has been applied incorrectly. £2.87 has been
charged rather than £2.96. This is not a new problem.
09:11:32 UTC Raja
Thank you for sharing this with me
Henry, please allow me a moment to check every detail with you
so that I can clear this for you.
09:14:24 UTC Raja
Henry, as I have check this for you
and found that there are two discounts, which are item price
discount and postage discount as well, may I know which one of
them you think applied incorrectly?
09:16:08 UTC vila_restor
No postage discount was applied.
The item price has been discounted incorrectly . These are two
separate transactions.
09:16:40 UTC vila_restor
The item price on each transaction
should have been £2.96.
09:16:48 UTC Raja
Let me share what has happened
here.
09:18:29 UTC Raja
I can see that you have created
multi buy discount, as per which for two items the price would
be £2.87 each. So now buyer has purchased two items for which
the original price was £2.96 each however, as per the multi
buy discount system applied £0.09 item discount and hence the
final price is £2.87 each.
09:19:06 UTC vila_restor
No. Not on two separate transaction
it should not.
09:19:42 UTC vila_restor
And you can clearly See with Your
Eyes that there are two searate transactions, so why even say
that?
09:20:45 UTC Raja
Yes, I can see that there are two
separate transaction and I totally agree with you however, I
will have to check this from the other end, which I am already
up to and I will surely clear this as well for you :)
09:20:45 UTC vila_restor
It's happened before on a single
transaction. Do you want me to drag that one up for you?
09:23:01 UTC Raja
Henry, I can see that you are
absolutely correct as the discount should not be applicable to
single transactions and hence I am escalating this to get a
clarification. Please be assured as we will reach back to you
within 24-73 hours via email with a clarification on this,
will that be okay?
09:23:17 UTC vila_restor
Yes, thankyou.
09:24:01 UTC Raja
You're welcome Henry.
09:24:22 UTC vila_restor
Goodbye for now, then.
09:24:33 UTC Raja
I am sorry that you have to face
this and please take care and stay safe :)
09:25:06 UTC Raja
It was my pleasure assisting you
today. Thank you for contacting eBay. Have a wonderful time
ahead!
09:25:13 UTC
Chat ended by
vila_restor
Now, I can't offer discounts on separate
transactions because of the once-per-transaction paypal
fee, even if they do happen shortly after each other
from the same user. As also mentioned in the
transcript, this has happened once before, on a single
transaction for one item. So what became of the
promised response within three days? The above
conversation was ten days ago. Nothing will
happen, Rob Hattrell, VP of Ebay UK. That's not an
Ebay promise, that's a Henry Walmsley promise based on
my everyday experience of eBay lies.
27-MAY-2020:
Oh, I do apologise. Oddly, the very
next morning after the last post on this website I
received an ebay site message. Actually, no I
didn't! It was a Direct Email from
customerhelp_uk@ebay.com . It reads thus:
Follow up regarding Multi Buy
Discount issue SR# 1-261391692697
Hello Henry,
This is a follow up from eBay customer support with
regard to the credit for the unsold items.
We apologize for the long wait as we are still looking
into this matter. I’m sorry for the inconvenience it
has caused to you.
We are working closely with the relevant team to seek
a resolution for your query. Please do not worry, we
will be taking full ownership of your query until we
can get a resolution and would monitor your account to
ensure that you are not experiencing any other issues.
We cannot state the stipulated time, however you
would be contacted sooner as we get any update from
our technical team.
Thank you and have a blessed day!
Kind Regards,
Raja S.
eBay Customer Support
[THREAD ID: 1-3C2XV4WR]
Once again we have to suffer
the age old, long practiced ebay seller "support"
technique of pretending to not understand the actual
issue, and diverting attention away to something else
which was not the original problem. In this case,
nothing whatsoever to do with me. Fortunately, It
won't work with me, because I'm not an idiot. "With regard
to credit for unsold items," Raja S, (once again hiding
behind a pseudonym.) That's complete nonsense
totally unrelated to the clearly stated original
problem.
Can I have a job, Robert Hattrell? Vice President of
eBay UK. I have a functioning short and long term
memory, I can read, hear and understand words spoken on a
telephone, and I don't lie. Which makes me
completely unsuitable for your toy-town organization.
17-JUN-2020 Another
Instance Of Multi-Buy Discount Being Applied to Separate
Orders In Error, and the Ensuing Ebay Lies.
On 09-JUN-2020 I spotted another instance of multi-buy
discount being applied incorrectly on two separate orders
from the same person. I wouldn't mind, but Paypal
charges a 40pee flat fee for each individual transaction,
and I can't absorb that *and* a discount. It's also
just wrong in terms of functional site operation, making
me wonder what else is implemented in a shoddy
fashion. Everything? So, onto the text chat
seller "support" service I go:
09-JUN-2020 Text Chat with Hannah Regarding the
Incorrect Application of eBay Multi-Buy Discounts on
Separate Transactions
Summary: Hannah accepts that there has been an error
and then later sends back an obfuscating email, discussing
something that we have already dealt with in the text
chat. Not acceptable. I complain. Roshni
V. via email asks for screenshots and I provide them via
email. A deafening silence follows, which I take to
be eBay ignoring an obvious eBay systems problem, rather
than dealing with it.
If you actually want an analysis, here it comes:
Ebay multi-buy discounts has been implemented by an Idiot
who didn't understand how the existing systems work, and
couldn't be arsed to find out. If two separate
purchases come in from one customer within the same minute
timestamp, they get given a multi-buy discount and I lose
money. Paypal and eBay on the other hand, do very
well out of this. Considered globally, or even on
eBay UK, that could probably pay for Rob Hattrell's Bonus
all by itself.
Unless, of course, it was deliberate, and eBay was hoping
that I wouldn't notice, eh Robbo?
"He is
passionate about consumer sellers, small businesses and
the role technology and eBay play in powering
entrepreneurship and creating opportunity. Rob has run the
UK market since 2017." But his website can't add up
correctly, which strangely always results in the customers
and sellers losing money, and eBay and the long associated
company Paypal getting more. Spooky! :)
31-JUL-2020: Yet Another
Critical Ebay Multi-Buy Failure Mode
On 23rd July I noticed yet another multi-buy
problem. Is it some trivia that I'm inventing to be
awkward? No. It makes the whole thing almost
completely useless. In brief, you are supposed to be
able to apply one multi-buy discount to, say, all items in
the shop of 3,4, and 5% if the customer purchases 2,3, or
4 or more of any item. That would be very
helpful to encourage people to browse the shop and to add
more items to the often dis-functional shopping cart, in
order to get the badly applied and confusing postage
discount. You are also supposed to be able to apply
bigger discounts to specific items, say 5,10, and 15% for
purchases of 2,3, or 4 or more of those particular
items. The specific discount is supposed to take
priority over the global discount for that item, or you
are at least supposed to be able to select the
priority. That option is always greyed out on the
relevant promotions page. What actually happens?
What actually happens is the worst of all possible binary
combinations of failure. Ebay displays the lower
global discount to the customer, say 5% for four light
bulbs, then actually gives them the greater 15% discount
when they actually pay. Great! I've sold
something for £4 and ebay has charged the customer £3 for
it. Actually, it could be worse. It is
probably possible to make the global discount higher than
the specific one. Then the customer would see a big
discount and get a smaller one at checkout. I'll try
this to see if that is possible. Of course, that
would be ebay systems enabling retail fraud, which you
might well do accidentally if you weren't reading this.
So, displaying one discount and giving a bigger one is a
clear site failure, at least it is to me. What do
ebay seller support have to say about this?
Here's the telephone call - Yes, the 'phones are
back. Oh, joy unrestrained! Click to listen:
23-JUL-2020 Ebay Seller Support Call where an Immediate
Ebay Lie Causes an Argument About Recording 'Phone
Calls, Followed by a Very Helpful Person Called Eric who
Agrees That the eBay Multi-Buy Discount System as it
Currently Stands is "Completely Useless."
Summary:
1) Well, ebay first line telephone support. I don't
know what such a big successful corporation could be so
afraid of, but if you are allowed to record
telephone calls for 'training and quality purposes,' then
I am also allowed to record telephone calls for
'training and quality purposes.' It might, you never
know, improve your quality one day. The
first line telephone operative finds a way around this
ebay lie by carrying on the call while 'not giving me
authorization to record it.' Fine!
2) I explain the problem to a very helpful man
called Eric who I suspect is based in Ireland.
Basically, we both agree that the system should definitely
never display one price and charge another, and is
therefore, "completely useless." His words and
mine. We also agree that a proper solution to this
problem is unlikely to happen, ever. He promises to
have a look into it anyway to see if there is some way to
work around it. I thank him for his time.
So. I deactivate the global multi-buy discount so
that the smaller number of listing specific discounts show
correctly. Unfortunately this results in people who
might like to buy multiple different items having to pay
more, and I make fewer sales as a result. Yet
another much-vaunted ebay feature that is completely
useless, much like Rob Hattrell, VP of ebay UK for
example, who I have no doubt is aware of this issue, but
who carries on regardless allowing new silly features to
be added to the website, while failing to correct the
existing critical functional failures. Those
much-vaunted failures which I pay to use in my monthly
fees and shop subscription.
Thanks Rob,
Until the next time.
25-AUG-2020: Another
Customer Loses Out on his Ebay Multi-Buy Promotional
Discount and Makes Me Guilty of Retail Fraud - Again
This problem was first reported to ebay by me
way back on 7th April 2020, four months ago. The
response then was complete denial. On the 23rd
August I spotted another instance. The listing was
for items priced at £2.95 for one, and £2.83 for three:
Just in case you thought that I might have recently edited
the listing, here's the revision history:
So the last edit was on 24th July. We have to
establish all these facts beforehand, or else the ebay
telephone support liars will just use claims like "you
have edited the listing" as their excuse during the call,
as we have heard earlier.
Finally, a list of recent sales from that listing and the
prices charged for the items.
We can see that on the 6th August, someone successfully
buys four relays for the correct reduced price of £2.80,
there are no subsequent edits to the listing, and on 23rd
August a UK customer buys three and is charged the full
price of £2.95. The price per item should have been
£2.83. Showing one price and charging another is
retail fraud. So, I refund the customer his 36pee
via paypal, paypal keep all their fees on the full price
and ebay keep all their fees on the full price. Over
the entire ebay sales world, this must be inflating the
bonuses of Rob Hattrell, VP of Ebay UK and several
Californians by Millions Upon Millions Of Pounds.
Remember, it's been Four Months since I first reported
this, and I've not inspected every single transaction.
To the Ebay seller support telephone line then, I
think. Click to hear the recording:
25-AUG-2020
Roger of Ebay Customer Support Admits That I Am Not The
Only One Suffering Multi-Buy Promotion Failures
Resulting in Retail Fraud and Says That, "It Will Never
Happen Again!"
Summary: Roger promises that this will never
happen again then goes into what I'm going to describe
from now on as covering up the truth while saying nothing,
"Blabber Mode." He then tells an ebay lie about this
being "Top Priority." We also establish that the
much vaunted multi-buy promotion system does not function
on most international sites. There is also a
post-script with the delightful Sharmaine about the
upcoming new ebay managed payments system. I look
forward to that being implemented flawlessly.
Still not very good, Rob Hattrell, is it? Did you
actually finish your geography degree at Oxford?
Still, I look forward to you being being a co-defendant in
the dock at my trial for retail fraud. Actually, I
won't be in the dock because I'm giving refunds where it
occurs. So it will just be... *You.*
After all, you are "accountable for all operations in
that market."
04-SEP-2020
Roger Was An Ebay Liar - Because it Did Happen
Again. More Ebay Multi-Buy Promotion Retail Fraud.
So, after I was assured on the 25th August
that, "It will never happen again," another of my
customers was defrauded by ebay systems and I have to pick
up the pieces.
It's the usual story. The customer chooses to buy
three of the same item, in this case a stereo
potentiometer. Multi-Buy says £3.00 each, ebay
checkout charges the full price, £3.45.
Here's the order as it appears in my paid and dispatched
list, noting that it is a UK buyer with a CF postcode:
And here's the listing:
And here's the part of the listing showing when it was
last modified, just so that there can be no, "You must
have modified the listing," confusion as was the first
ebay excuse back in April:
OK, so there's no mistake on my part, and even ebay now
admit that this is happening. This is not good
enough. I first reported this six months ago on 7th
April 2020. It's retail fraud and should therefore
be considered to be an emergency, not something to
first deny and then to delay for six months. So,
it's onto the telephone again. Warning, there's a
full forty minutes worth of this. You can click on
the link to hear the call in its entirety. I have
spared you the hold music:
04-SEP-2020
Recording of Ebay Seller Support admitting Multi-Buy
Promotions Fail Thus Charging Customers Too Much, And
More.
Summary:
An ebay customer support person repeats back to me what I
have already told her, tells me that it is nothing to
worry about, and goes into "Ebay Excuse Blabber Mode."
An ebay customer support manager "Jim" repeats back to me
what I have already told him.
I am assured that this problem first reported six months
ago is being given top priority.
"Jim" gives me a magic reference number.
"Jim" refuses to contact Robert Hattrell VP of ebay UK
directly in this emergency but will raise it with "higher
management," through the usual channels.
I say it's not good enough, and inform "Jim" that I intend
to raise this with UK Trading Standards as ongoing retail
fraud.
There is another slight twist to this issue. Twice
today when I checked the listing, the multi-buy promotion
had disappeared. Here's a screenshot from today:
Spooky! A few minutes later the promotion came back,
using the same exact same browser, viewing from the
browser that was accessing my ebay account. Then it
was gone once more, and a few minutes later it came
back. So maybe some customers are seeing this
version and buying when the multi-buy promotion is mysteriously
not showing. But we know from the 7th April 2020
report from the customer that at least some people are
buying expecting a lower price and not getting the
discount that they have seen with their eyes.
What's going on? Maybe the defrauded customer clicks
on the discount, then pays a few seconds later when ebay
has mysteriously deactivated the promotion.
16-SEP-2020: More
Multi-Buy Failure Updates and Some Interesting
Information That Slips Out During an Ebay Seller Support
Phone Call
So, the multi-buy promotion failures
continue unabated with many similar instances to those
shown above. I'd say that they occur about 30% of
the time, though I've not done a full count. They do
not always result in a retail fraud
situation. What is happening is that the multi-buy
promotions are appearing and disappearing. My guess
is that when a customer actually complains, the promotion
has disappeared in-between the customer hitting the 'Buy
Four' button and the system registering the sale.
This remains under further investigation on my part.
The phone call on this day concerning a particularly
obvious failure is linked below, and you can click on the
link to listen to it. I have sent a message to my
customer asking if he could see the promotion, and if he
made his purchase expecting a discount. I should not
have to bother my customers with such questions.
Some interesting events and comments fell out of this
conversation.
16-SEP-2020
Call to ebay seller support about the six month long
ongoing failure of multi-buy promotions.
Call Summary:
The call operative actually witnessed the promotion
re-appearing having first said that there was no promotion
active, and she confirms this.
Ebay admit that this has been occurring since at least
April 2020.
The call operative states that the problem is occurring on
ebay.uk and ebay.com.
The call operative states that the problem does not
occur on all selling accounts.
How strange! Why could that ever be?
17-SEP-2020 The Helpful
Customer Responds The He Did Indeed Buy Via The
Multi-Buy Promotion - And That Therefore He Was
Overcharged
ebay message exchange with H.C.:
_______
Hello H.C.,
Your ferrite bars are on the way. I have a question, if
you don't mind taking the time to answer. Did you see any
kind of "Multi-Buy Promotion" when you looked at my
listing for those parts? A "Buy four four or more for
£3.78," kind of thing?
Thanks,
Henry Walmsley.
____________
Hello
Henry
Yes, i bought these items through the multi buy option
given on the listing, different prices depending if you
bought 1, 2 ,3 or 4 or more.
Regards
H.C.
___________
Hello
H.C.,
I think that you've been over-charged. It's not so much,
but it's a really important issue for me because it
constitutes retail fraud. If you get any refunds or
anything from ebay please don't worry about it. I may send
you some money back manually. Thank you /very much/ for
your response.
If you are really bored, you might look at my fight page
on this issue:
(witten-out link to this page)
Sincerely,
Henry Walmsley
____________
Thanks Henry,
I had no idea I was being overcharged and just took the
final amount to pay as being accurate. I really appreciate
your response to this and it proves to me that amongst the
few rogues on e-bay there are honest traders who look out
for their customers and I would like to think that's the
majority of traders.
Regards
H.C.
____________
And therein lies the problem, expressed by the customer exactly.
"I took the final amount to pay as being accurate."
That is why advertising one price and then charging
another is retail fraud under UK law. In the past,
several supermarkets have been up in court for the exactly
analogous error of showing one price on the shelf, and
charging more at the checkout. So, it's onto the
Ebay seller support telephone line again. You can
click on the link below to hear the call in full.
Warning: It's very long, very tedious, and descends
into truly Pythonesque levels of ebay denial and lies.
17-SEP-2020:
Ebay Seller Support Twist, Turn, Deny, and finally Give
Me 26pee Back When I Refund The Customer the £2.68 That
He Was Defrauded Out Of by an Ebay Systems Failure That
Has Been Documented for Six Months
Call Summary:
* Preamble and we try to establish what was agreed
yesterday.
* The call operative tries every foolish trick to deny the
problem, even blaming it on the postage charge at one
stage. Goodness me! I can add up.
* A manager or supervisor is unavailable.
* After being forced into explaining the situation as if
to a child, using 'shop assistant and customer' role play,
I issue a refund and get back 26pee in ebay fees.
* There is no time estimate for fixing the "bug" which
causes multi-buy promotions to appear and disappear on
some seller's accounts. I point out that six months
should be enough.
I've been on this problem for six months now. After
all that, even *I* was astounded by the level of
deliberate obfuscation and denial on this call. Can
you hear all that typing in the background? Those
edited out on-hold periods can be quite long as
well. I wonder what coaching from above could be
going on there?
26pee? 10% of £2.68 is 27pee when correctly
rounded. OK, I'm not going back for the 1pee.
But I will next time, 'Robert Hattrell of eBay UK who is
responsible for all ebay UK activities.' I may also
change my mind about the 1pee. If all ebay
fee refunds are incorrectly rounded down, that could be
millions of pounds a year, when taken worldwide.
Large scale rounding fraud is actually quite a well-known
method of theft. "Watch this page," for that one!
I think I've got enough for BBC Radio Four's, "You and
Yours" programme now. Maybe even, "Watchdog" on BBC1
national television as well. What fun!
There is a little more analysis to be done on this yet,
and it concerns the frequent and mysterious appearance and
disappearance of the multi-buy promotions on my
listings. These were not instigated by me, as
was witnessed by an ebay call operative on 16th
September 2020. This
could be causing the incorrect pricing retail fraud
problem documented here to be multiplied up, from an
extremely rare event, to a regular event. Bear
with me for another couple of days,
Winifred Robinson of Radio 4's You and Yours consumer
affairs programme, while I conduct some small experiments.
21-SEP-2020: Some
Small Experiments and A Little More Analysis Have Been
Done.
So, if I load one of my multi-buy promotion
listings into a separate anonymous browser window as a
guest ebay customer, the customer (sometimes) sees them
active. This is a static page, i.e. it does not
automatically update when the listing changes behind the
scenes. If I go and turn off the promotion via my
ebay account, naturally enough, the promotion is still
there visible on the static page. When, as the
customer, I then enter a number of items to buy which
should get a promotional discount, not surprisingly, I do
not get the discount. That is as expected: It has
just been turned off.
Now, that could cause a problem if I, the seller,
were being careless. If I deactivated all of my
promotions at once during a busy time, I might expect some
customers to see the promotion price, buy from the listing
and not notice that the promotion has been removed and not
applied to the sale. That would be price
misrepresentation and I, by law, would have to correct it
and avoid it happening in the future. That's not
really the problem here. I now know to look out for
such instances, and not go removing promotions without
checking purchases made around that time. The
problem occurs when ebay systems mysteriously
remove the promotions from my listings without my
knowledge and then puts them back, all ready to remove
them again whenever they feel like it. This happens
all the time, and I have spotted two instances
today. This causes the price misrepresentation
criminal act as documented, and it is beyond my
control.
I have seen another recent purchase today that should have
had a discount applied, and I wait to hear back from the
customer if he purchased it via a listing showing a
promotion when the page was loaded. Until ebay "fix
the bug" causing some sellers' multi-buy promotions to
appear and disappear, these price misrepresentation crimes
will continue to occur.
05-OCT-2020: Another
Multi-Buy Promotion Failure Results in Confirmed Retail
Fraud
On 1st October 2020 a customer ordered two
neon indicators. It's the same story again.
The customer sees a price of "Buy 2 for £2.51" and is
charged the full price of £2.95 for both. There has
been no revision of this listing since 19th August
2020. For completeness of the documentation I will
continue to provide screenshots for now.
Listing for Red Neons Item Number 114166030939 Showing
The Multi-Buy Promotion
Order Details Page Showing Incorrect Non-Application
Of Mult-Buy Discount for Item Number 114166030939 and
the Subsequent Refund Instigated By Me
Ebay site message exchange with my customer
________________
New message to: *Helpful Customer* Sent: 02-Oct-20 14:37
Hello *Helpful Customer*,
Sorry to bother you. When you bought these two neons did
you see any promotion on the page like "buy 2 for £2.51?"
If you did, you may have been overcharged by an ebay
failure. If you could let me know it would be most
helpful.
Thanks,
Henry Walmsley.
_________________
New message from: *Helpful Customer* Sent: 02-Oct-20 17:16
There was indeed a "buy 2 for £2.51" box on the page. I
never thought to check that that had been applied. Don't
worry if it's difficult to sort out, it's only pennies in
the scheme of things.
_________________
This response from the customer indicates again why this
kind of problem is considered to be straightforward retail
fraud under UK law. Because it is. So, it's
onto the Batphone once more to see what ebay Seller
"Support" have to say about this latest example. You
can click on the link below to hear the conversation in
full.
05-OCT-2020:
The Ebay Seller Support Telephone Line Continue to
Describe The Problem With Multi-Buy Promotions Failing
and Causing Retail Fraud as an Inconvenience and that it
will be Reported and Fixed Soon.
Call Summary:
1) Oddly, this call operative can add up numbers,
and doesn't try every silly deception in the book
to deny the problem. Weird! What's going on?
2) I do the refund and get a very vague promise that
I will get the fees back on the 88p.
3) I make it clear that Robert Hattrell VP of Ebay
UK will be with me in the dock if I end up in court in
front of Tradings Standards, so he ought to be told about
this problem.
4) I point out that this was first reported by me on
7th April 2020.
5) All the usual lies about it being a priority
which we've come to expect by now, etc. etc.
Not so much of a priority to stop the ebay programming
children spending time messing about with the website
fonts, cosmetic layout, and busily adding on other
sub-standard features to the badly understood and creaking
underlying infrastructure which cause even more failures
and inconvenience, though. You can read about some
of those on my other pages.
15-OCT-2020 The Same Ebay
Multi-Buy Promotion Price Misrepresentation Retail Fraud
Problem Occurs Again, and I Get The Same Nil Response
From Seller Support
Same story again.
You can see that I *did* modify that listing at 14:53 that
day, but only to reduce the amount of stock visible on the
recently purchased C1M variant, as I was running out.
Check with the customer:
_____________________
Hello *JS*,
Your pots are on the way. I have a question if you have
the time to answer. When you looked at the ebay page to
buy these, did you see any discount boxes like "Buy 2
£3.28 each?" I ask because there is an ongoing ebay
failure which can cause people to be over-charged. If you
saw the promo boxes you may have been subject to
this. It would be immensely helpful if you let me
know if you saw the multi-buy promotion, and if so I'll
refund the difference shortly.
Thanks, Henry Walmsley.
____________________
Hi there,
Yes there were discount boxes, Ive attached a screenshot
of what is displayed on the item page below
Thanks for contacting me
All the best
*JS*
____________________
Here are the eBay telephone lies. You can click on
the links below to hear the lies in full.
eBay accept that Multi-Buy Promotion Failures result in
Retail Fraud and after much discussion, and being put
through to the wrong people, a little singing boy child
cuts me off.
Well that's not good enough, is it? No.
I
Complain at being cut-off by an Interrupting Ebay Child
Call Operative
I also see that Robert Hattrell is no longer VP of ebay
UK. No. He is now Senior Vice President of
Ebay Europe. Well lad, I'm delighted to see that
eight months of retail fraud on your website has lifted
you to such a lofty position. I dare say that your
promotion is due to the extra money generated by
systematic ebay retail fraud on the online marketplace for
which you are responsible.
22-OCT-2020: Another
Instance of Ebay Price Misrepresentation aka Fraud From
17th October 2020
Unless they are particularly relevant or
provide new information, I'll spare you most of the
screenshots thenceforth and skip straight to registering
the fraud event, the subsequent telephone calls and some
discussion. On 17th October 2020 another customer
bought two items from a listing with an active MBP.
He was overcharged by 24pee. I issue a refund
because I'm not a criminal. But what about the ebay
fees on that 24pee? Approximately 2.4pee. Not
a massive amount in the grand scheme of things but no;
Wait. Actually, it is. Worldwide, that's millions
of pounds a year. Once again,
in each of these instances, ebay has to be given the right
to reply. So, it's onto the, "ebay telephone of
lies." You can click on the link below to hear the
call in all its extended gory detail.
22-OCT-2020: Ebay Seller Support Try To Deny a
Retail Fraud Problem Again, Claim to have Issued a Fee
Refund Which is Invisible To Me, and Blatantly Lie About
Informing Robert Hattrell, SVP of eBay Europe
Call Summary:
1) We try to establish the issue while 'Bler'
fetches her pocket calculator, then we get some made-up
excuses about buying one item.
2) I attempt to establish that the problem is not an
inconvenience or a glitch, it is systematic ongoing retail
fraud.
3) I issue a refund to the customer.
4) I try to establish a visible transaction in my
ebay account where I can see my ebay fee refunded, and
the last one from 15th October.
5) Having been assured that the credit had been
issued, we find that an unusual thing called "Validation"
actually has to occur before the credit is issued.
6) Some ebay "blabber mode"
7) I still can't see the credit.
8) 'Bler' says that she does not have full access to
my account. LIE DETECTED!
9) 'Bler' states definitively that due
to the seriousness of the situation, she will personally
inform Robert Hattrell SVP of Ebay Europe. LIE
DETECTED!
10) I make it entirely clear that my queries
regarding my invoice were not dealt with, and get cut off.
Forgive me for leaving a lot of background chatter in on
these calls, but just occasionally I think that you can
hear very similar conversations going on in the
background during quiet periods. Specifically at
28:42, where we hear "Ahh, alright, so the buyer paid
twenty-six pounds #### make sure you have not changed the
amount ###.... refund, you can always call paypal...ok is
there anything else?" Followed by, "Yup,yup,yup, yup yup
yup yup!" Celebration noises. Also, sometimes it
sounds like a bit of an hilarious party going on.
Now, I've compressed these calls up a bit already, but I
might try to clean the hum off of that bit of background
conversation, because it sounds suspiciously familiar,
and hearing someone celebrating in the background at
fobbing off yet another honest ebay seller is not
funny. Welcome to the ebay Indian boileroom
seller support scam. Tell me it's not true, Bobby,
before I clean that audio passage up.
09-NOV-2020:
Another Instance of Ebay Multi-Buy Promotion Retail
Fraud
An Aside:
On 06-NOV-2020 I attended an online ebay webinar from
09:00 to 13:00. This was supported by Caroline
Dineage, M.P. for Gosport and Digital Minister, Solent
Local Enterprise Partnership LEP, Gosport Council,
Business South, New Forest Council, East Hampshire
Council, Havant Council, and Southampton City
Council. Webinar organiser Annie Shields,
annshields@ebay.com, had been given links to these
pages in advance on 29-OCT-2020. During
this webinar, multi-buy promotions and order level
promotions were specifically encouraged by ebay executive
Berengere Chaintreau-Fuchs, despite their ongoing failure
causing retail fraud. Out of the above
organisations, only Caroline Dineage was informed about
the ongoing ebay retail fraud situation by email and
special delivery post in advance. According to her
assistant, Natasha Hook,
"Caroline has arranged these
events as the Member of Parliament for Gosport and not
in her Ministerial capacity. Under Parliamentary
Protocol, MPs can only correspond with their
constituents, therefore you need to contact your MP.
However, if you would like to provide some more details
for Caroline’s information then please do."
To which I replied,
"Then ebay should not use the
phrase:
'eBay is hosting two Online Digital Skills Workshops on
6 and 13 November in association with Digital Minister
and local Gosport MP, Caroline Dinenage, designed to
help local businesses in the Solent area grow their
presence online.'
Unless she is willing to address all ebay issues,
specifically, ongoing retail fraud on the site, you must
ensure that all references to "Digital Minister" are
removed from future ebay missives and are specifically
removed from previous ones."
That seems fair. Caroline has links to all these
pages, but I've yet to hear anything back in her capacity
as Digital Minister. There will be interactions with
specific members of Solent LEP and Southampton City
Council before the next upcoming ebay webinar on
13-NOV-2020. During the webinar, I received no
response from the speakers to a question sent in by me
regarding this issue.
Meanwhile, perhaps everything has already been fixed and
mended since I first reported the issue on
07-APR-2020? No. Right on cue, I deal with the
days orders and find another retail fraud instance from
05-NOV-2020. Here is the telephone call to ebay
seller support where I am assured by Leon that it is given
top priority. You can click on the link below to
hear the call in full.
06-NOV-2020
Leon Assures Me That Ebay Multi-Buy Promotions Causing
Retail Fraud is Given Top Priority
Call Summary:
1) We establish that the problem has indeed occurred
again, and that it has been ongoing since 07-APR-2020.
2) I suggest that Robert Hattrell and Berengere
Chaintreau-Fuchs should be informed as they are both still
pushing the use of MBPs in ebay webinars.
3) I issue a refund to the customer to avoid being a
criminal under UK law.
4) I request a refund of the ebay fees on my refund to the
customer to avoid ebay being a corporate fraud.
Leon is a little more polite and 'on-the-ball' than usual,
but politeness does not solve the issue. I may
provide a little more documentation but for now, the
problem clearly still exists and it will continue to do so
while ebay keeps mysteriously removing my multi-buy
promotions and then re-instating them for no reason.
29-NOV-2020
Two More Instances Of The Ebay Website Causing Retail
Fraud On The Same Day
On 29-NOV-2020, two more instances of
multi-buy promotion failure causing retail fraud occurred
within hours of each other. The first instance
defrauded my customer out of £2.08. Thankfully I
spotted it and wrote to him via an ebay message:
_______________________
Henry: Hello <nice customer>,
You will see a refund for £2.08 on this purchase soon,
because an ongoing failure in ebay systems failed to apply
a multi-buy discount when you paid. It would be immensely
helpful to me if you could drop me a quick message
confirming if you saw the multi-buy discount boxes and
prices on the listing when you viewed the item.
Thanks, Henry.
_______________________
Nice Customer: Hi, thankyou, I hadn't noticed the
error which is funny because the multi buy was why I got
as many as I did! Yes it did say something about
multi buy. Thanks. ###
_______________________
This throws into sharp relief once again the nature of
this nasty issue. The customers don't always
notice. It's a failure causing a clear fraud.
My second customer suffering the same thing that day was less
specific about seeing the multi-buy promotion boxes, but he
was also refunded the £0.64 that ebay stole from him in my
name.
To be clear, the refunds are given by me. Then I have to
go onto the telephone to make sure that ebay are made aware of
the problem, given a chance to respond, and to attempt to get
the ebay fees back on the refunded part of the
transaction. Here is the hour-long telephone call to the
"Ebay Seller Support Telephone Line Of Lies" You can
click on the link to hear it. The only edits are to
remove the hold music and to preserve the anonymity of my
customers.
30-NOV-2020 Telephone Call to Ebay Seller Support Concerning
Two Further Instances of Ebay Retail Fraud Caused by Failing
Multi-Buy Promotions.
Call Summary
1) We establish the problem at some length.
2) I am connected to an account specialist. I am
not sure why.
3) "Hello Hello," it's a chirpy-chappie who sounds as if
he's working from home on an old analogue cordless
telephone. I hope that he knows just how frightfully
insecure they are. Sorry, I should have asked him.
You can pick-up both sides of calls made using them from two
miles away using nothing more than an old valve HF
communications receiver, and a wire aerial in the
garden. Actually, you can even re-tune a MW AM radio and
do the same thing. They have the distinctive analogue
interference caused by proximity to a computer monitor on the
downlink sound heard in the call. Naughty, and stupid.
4) We establish the same problem again, at some
length.
5) Chirpy Chappie suggests reporting the glitch. I
suggest not calling ongoing retail fraud a "glitch."
6) Chirpy Chappie says that when I refund the buyer, I
will get my fees back automatically. Wrong!
7) Chirpy Chappie apparantly refunds my fees for the
refund. We shall see.
8) We deal with the next instance.
9) We agree that the second buyer was over-charged as
well.
10) I suggest that Robert Hattrell needs to know about
retail fraud on the ebay site, and I suggest some solutions.
11) I am put through to the selling promotions
department, "so that they can resolve the situation."
12) I make it clear that retail fraud is not an
inconvenience, it's a crime.
13) An enormously long hold occurs.
13) We now have Denise the manager.
14) Denise the manager attempts to grasp the situation
at some length, while an ebay boiler-room party goes on in the
background.
15) Denise can't duplicate the issue and then blabbers
on hopelessly stabbing at the keys. I let her try.
No, it's not working, is it?
16) I try to help Denise a bit, with the confusing ebay
checkout system, that is confusing for my customers as
well. Even ebay telephone "managers" can't understand
their checkout systems and promotions, even when they are
working correctly. It's ridiculous.
17) We carry on. I explain that I have reported
the same problem ten times since 07-APR-2020.
18) I complain bitterly. The ebay boiler-room
party carries on in the background.
19) Denise tells me the same old lies about reporting
the problem yet again. I use the phrase, "ebay lies."
20) Ebay does absolutely Nothing. I say that it is
not good enough.
21) I remind Denise that Robert Hatrell is "Responsible
for all ebay activities in Europe." The call ends.
Is it odd that two should occur on the same day? Is it
odd that I'd had a bumper sales day that day? Are ebay
systems turning off my promotions because I'm selling too
much, according to their invisible internal limits?
Well, this problem would certainly be a give-away symptom of
that, if it were indeed the case.
Another
Aside (2)
On Friday 13th
November there was another ebay webinar for more advanced
users where, once again, multi-buy promotions were promoted to
encourage sales. One of the introductory presentations
promoting ebay was made by none other than the Rt. Hon. Suella
Braverman Q.C. M.P., the UK attorney general.
Gosh! I thought that I'd better make the attorney
general aware that the online marketplace that she is
promoting regularly produces retail fraud, so I sent the
following letter by special delivery:
__________________________________________
16-NOV-2020
Suella Braverman,
House of Commons,
London.
SW1A 0AA.
Dear Suella Braverman,
Since January 2012 my primary source of income has been as a
self-employed seller of electronic components primarily
using the ebay online marketplace. On 13th November I
took part in an online webinar run by ebay entitled, "Power
Up Your Online Sales," where you were one of the speakers.
You should be aware of the many thousands of deeply
frustrated ebay sellers who would like to "Power Up Their
Online Sales," but are prevented from doing so by a variety
of ebay site malfunctions, illegal sales limiting activity
hidden within their computer systems, and retail fraud
committed by ebay system failures. Those failures are
directly connected to a site feature that was specifically
promoted during the last webinar.
I have been meticulous in documenting these issues, giving
ebay a chance to respond every time. On no occasion
have I received a satisfactory response. In
particular, an issue with customers seeing one price and
then being charged a higher price at checkout has been
ongoing since 7th April 2020. That has still not been
resolved as of this date, and the last occurrence was on 5th
November. That is retail fraud.
All my documentation is available in public and online at
the following secure https web address:
(written-out link to this page)
Somewhere in your schedule, I urge you to consider the
following actions:
1) Put aside some time to look at these pages, to understand
the importance of the points made and the dismissive
responses given to me by ebay.
2) Bring these points and the online documentation to the
attention of your ebay contact or Robert Hattrell who, "Is
responsible for all ebay activities in the region."
3) Reconsider your apparent public connection with ebay UK,
who consider retail fraud to be so unimportant that it can
be ignored for eight months.
Yours Sincerely,
Henry J. Walmsley.
__________________________________________
I have yet to receive a response from her office at the House
of Commons. Perhaps the UK attorney general was assured
by her friends at ebay that this problem had been completely
fixed. The two instances of retail fraud from
29-NOV-2020 detailed above show that this is not the case.
16-DEC-2020 Two More Ebay Retail Fraud
Instances Occur Within Four Days.
On 07-DEC-2020 a customer bought two items of
ebay item no. 120748828825. He couldn't remember
seeing the discount prices, so they may have been
deactivated by ebay systems when he viewed the
listing. That is not supposed to happen, of
course. In any case, when I re-checked the listing the
discounts were back, so as far I I can tell, price
misrepresentation has occurred.
The discount price was (£4.71 X 2) + £1.58 = £11.00 for two
items plus one instance of a £1.58 postage charge.
The price charged was (£4.96 X 2) +£1.58 = £11.50 for two items plus one instance of a
£1.58 postage charge.
A sneaky overcharge of £0.50 by ebay systems.
This looks quite simple to me. To, "One of the
highest senior supervisors," however, it seemed to
be extremely complicated. Oh dear, an even
more expert liar than usual. And so it very
much proved to be, in a near hour-long call to the
ebay seller support telephone line of lies.
You can click on the link below to hear the call in
full, with the complete muted silences and hold
music removed. (We like to hear what's going
on in the background while the microphone is open
though, right?)
08-DEC-2020
Telephone Call to Ebay Seller Support to Inform
Them That a Multi-Buy Promotion Failure Caused
Ebay Retail Fraud to be Committed on 07-DEC-2020
Call Summary, In Brief:
1) I speak to Isabel or Isa. We do the
preliminaries.
2) I speak to Jona or Lona who is, "One of the
highest senior supervisors." My gosh.
How? Being the biggest and best liar of them
all?
3) Jonalona goes to every possible place to
deny that the problem even exists.
4) Jonalona tries to deny that it is retail
fraud to the very last word.
5) For some reason Jonalona suddenly decides
that this is a problem to do with Ebay Managed
Payments, which it clearly isn't.
6) Like a fool, I fall for it, and speak to a
sensible person called Robert and we end the call.
I say, "fall for it." Why did Jonalona
suddenly decide that the problem belonged to someone
else? I'll tell you. Because ebay sends
you a little survey after most telephone calls to
the ebay seller support telephone line of lies,
*but*, the feedback given in such a survey always
relates to the last person that you were transferred
to.
No reasonable conclusion was reached during this
call. The promised call back did not occur the
following day. It warrants a call back from
me, but if you listened to the end, you will
understand that a certain amount of weariness can
occur. Still, once more, ebay have been given
a chance to respond to each and every case of retail
fraud caused by their systems. I refunded the
customer the 50pee.
_________________________________
On 11-DEC-2020 the
following ebay systems error
occurred
causing retail fraud, relating to a purchase of
ebay item no. 111180964523.
The
discount price was (£3.11 X 2) + £1.58 =
£7.80 for two items plus one instance of a
£1.58 postage charge.
The price charged was (£3.45 X 2)
+£1.58 = £8.48 for two items plus one
instance of a £1.58 postage charge.
The customer was defrauded by £0.68 by ebay
systems. To check, I send the following
enquiry to my customer:
__________________________________________________
Hello ##### #######,
You've been over-charged for this order by a failure
in ebay systems to apply a multi-buy discount. I'll
refund the 68p by tomorrow. Meanwhile it would be
most useful to be if you drop me a note to say
whether or not you saw the multi-buy promotion boxes
on the listing when you viewed it. ("buy 2, £3.11
each") kind of thing.
Thanks,
Henry Walmsley.
Ongoing fight: (written-out link to this page)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New message from: ######## (16Yellow Star)
Hi Henry, yeah I did see it but to be honest didn't
notice the increase, thanks anyway...
__________________________________________________
That's Ebay Retail Fraud! I spotted this one
quickly, so it was quite difficult to deny.
Yes, it's onto the telephone line. Still, ebay telephone
operatives have terrible trouble
adding-up, or at least have terrible
problems pretending to be unable to
add-up. We get there in the
end. You
can click on the link below to hear the telephone
conversation with Michael.
11-DEC-2020 The Ebay Seller Support Telephone Line
Admits Again That Multi-Buy Promotions Can Fail
Causing Retail Fraud
Call Summary:
1) Michael has serious trouble adding
up.
2) Michael eventually admits that this is a
known failure in ebay systems.
3) I inform Michael that the current person in
charge of eBay UK, Murray Lambell should be informed
of this serious problem that has existed since April
2020, and which has been reported by me on each
occasion.
4) This time, I do not fall for being
transferred to someone else before ending the call.
Murray Lambell has taken over as General Manager of
Ebay UK from Robert Hattrell, and is, "...responsible for all of eBay UK’s
Business to Consumer and Sales & Operations
activities." This includes the retail fraud in
all of the above instances.
Murray Lambell says online, "I am delighted to be taking over the
reins at eBay UK, which is an incredibly exciting
business in normal times, and is proving to be an
even more significant business in this developing
‘new normal’."
Well, we live in interesting times, Murray!
Let's hope that your 'new normal' (cough) includes
fewer instances of consumer fraud committed by your
website, eh?
More to follow, as it occurs.
01-MAR-2021 Two More
Instances Of Ebay Multi-Buy Promotion Failure
Retail Fraud Within Two Days
On 13-FEB-2021-22:17 a
customer ordered two items and was charged the full
price for one item twice, rather than the discount
price for two. On this particular occasion,
the customer did not see the discounts, but as a UK
customer, he should have done. This
demonstrates the ongoing issue of multi-buy
promotions disappearing seemingly at random.
Oddly enough, it seems to be when I'm selling a
respectable amount, and ebay systems are desperate
to reduce this. There are currently three
seller support telephone calls associated with this
report, two of which clearly involve passing the
proverbial Hot Potato, as if it's a radioactive lump
of spent fuel.
15-FEB-2021:
Ebay Jeannie makes a series of excuses and tries
to drop the retail fraud hot potato. No, I
will call back for the refund.
Call Summary:
1) We establish the facts at length. I wish
that I did not have to do this every time, but when
you do not, you get a flat denial from ebay.
2) Jeannie pretends to create a bug
report. Liar. It takes much more typing
to do that than we hear on the call.
3) I ask for a fee refund and Jeannie tries to pass
me somewhere else to avoid the negative feedback on
the call. Nope!
15-FEB-2021:
Managed Payments supposedly provide a Fee Refund
and I get Embroiled in Reporting the Site Issue
Yet Again
Upping the online ante
slightly, you can now see and hear
that last call in full, including
the hold music on YouTube, Murray
Lambell:
YouTube
Video of Ebay Seller Support Call
Discussing Multi-Buy Promotions
Causing Retail Fraud, 01
Local
VIdeo Ebay Seller Support
Discussing Multi-Buy Promotions
Causing Retail Fraud
ebay_mbf_rf_15022021.wmv
Call Summary:
1) Establish Facts, supposedly get a fee refund on
the refund amount.
2) Hot potato drop 1, long hold
3) Hot potato drop 2, long hold
4) Put through to the pretend village idiot
/ fall girl.
5) Attempted obfuscation by numbers, along with
hilarious call centre laughter in the background.
6) Some "blabber mode," about when the promotion was
created.
7) Cut off!
8) I was called back and am forced to make it clear
that the line was not dropped at my end.
9) "This is really a glitch on our system." - a
small admission. "We are really sorry, but
there is no problem" (!) "It is the only
one." (Lie!)
10) We discuss when this was, "all fixed."
More Lies.
11) I say again that this is retail fraud.
12) We establish that not all accounts are affected.
13) The telephone operative pretends to create a bug
report as a priority, but can't guarantee
anything. No, indeed. Not if you don't
create the report because the whole thing is too
much of a hot potato to even document for legal
reasons.
14) I suggest that Murray Lambell needs to hear
about the retail fraud being committed by his online
marketplace, for which he is responsible.
15) I get 58pee back, as if it's some kind of gift
from god. 'Gee Thanks, eBay!' What do
you want, some kind of Ebay, "Best Liar" Badge?
That's all for now. The second retail fraud
incident that week, and the subsequent ebay
telephone 'support' lies will follow shortly.
03-MAR-2021 Another
Confirmed Case of Retail Fraud Caused by Ebay
Systems on 17-FEB-2021
On 17th March 2021 I
spotted another case of ebay retail fraud committed
by ebay systems on my behalf on. I sent a site
message to the customer to ask if he saw the
multi-buy promotion boxes:
______________________________________
Henry: "Hello Nice Customer,
You've been overcharged on your order by an ongoing
intermittent failure in ebay systems to apply
multi-buy discounts correctly. Your total of £8.90
should have been £8.20. I'll refund the difference
manually later on tomorrow. Meanwhile it would be
immensely useful for me if you could let me know if
you saw the discounts when you viewed the listing,
boxes saying "Buy 2 £3.11 Each."
Thanks,
Henry Walmsley."
Nice Customer:
"Hi, thanks for the refund - didn’t realise I’d
been overcharged. I did see the discount box when
I chose to buy two of the pots.
Cheers. N.C."
______________________________________
Once again, clear price
misrepresentation retail fraud. So, off we
go again to the ebay telephone seller 'support'
telephone line of lies. You can hear the
entire phone call with just the hold music edited
out here:
17-FEB-2021
Ebay Seller Support Call to Report More Retail
Fraud Caused by the eBay Website.
The video for this
call is already on YouTube, though
you'll have to sit through the
hold music on that version while I
learn how to edit videos.
YouTube
Video of The Latest Ebay Retail
Fraud Incident and the
Subsequent Telephone Call to the
Ebay Seller Support Phone Line
Of Lies
Local
Video The Lastest Ebay Retail
Fraud Incident and the
Subsequent Telephone Call to the
Ebay Seller Support Phone Line
Of Lies mbf_vr60_17022021.wmv
Call Summary:
1) Just the usual
denials, lies, and hot potato drops writ extremely
large on this particular occasion.
2) I refund the customer during the call.
3) Absolutely no resolution of the issue.
4) I complain, invoke Murray Lambell General
Manager of eBay UK, who is responsible for all
ebay UK activities including retail fraud.
5) I am told to write to the Dublin dustbin
ebay
complaints address, as if we're living in the
19th century. I suggest delivering it by
horse and cart.
I have yet to call back
and get the ebay fees returned on the refund for
this one, so we may yet get to hear even more lies
and more hot potato drops on this particular
incident.
25-MAR-2021 Another
Instance of Retail Fraud Caused by Ebay Systems,
Number 15 Since 7th April 2020
I was losing count of
the number of retail fraud instances that I've
detected so I thought that I would check back and
add them up. I make this the fifteenth.
On 24th March 2021 I'm selling a decent amount on
ebay, and so ebay systems appear to be randomly
de-activating my promotions for some mysterious
reason. Short of constantly checking each
listing this is very difficult to spot.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, the de-activations
can occur while the customer is viewing the listing
so we have the same story of this causing retail
fraud yet again.
Here is a link where you can listen to the ensuing
call to the ebay seller 'support' telephone line of
lies:
24-MAR-2021 Ebay Seller Support Call to Report
More Retail Fraud Caused by the eBay Online
Marketplace
You can see the video
version of this call on YouTube
here:
24-MAR-2021
YouTube of Ebay
Seller Support
Call to Report
More Retail Fraud
Caused by the eBay
Online Marketplace
Local Video Ebay
Seller Support
Phone Call to
Report More Retail
Fraud Caused by
the eBay Online
Marketplace
multi_buy_fail_24032021.mp4
Call Summary:
1) The first callback is silent so I drop it and
request another.
2) Facts established. Yes, there was indeed an
error. I know!
3) I complain, and am pointed to the Horse and Cart
write-in address in Dublin.
4) I explain that this is the fifteenth time of
reporting the problem and that nothing has being
done via the 'process that you follow'
5) An unsatisfactory response again.
email: 
I check this inbox and the
associated spam folder daily, Murray Lambell, so
you're welcome to write-in and explain yourself.
Navigate
Up
Recent Edit
History
26-DEC-2025: self canonicalised, direct refs